Estonia

[damfin]

^
Tuokin kertoo enimmäkseen siitä että laivan kuntoa ja miehistön välinpitämättömyyttä ja laiminlyöntejä haluttiin peitellä todistajien lausuntoja kaunistelemalla, sitä en tiedä miksi näin mutta ehkä tuohon aikaan ei haluttu taloutensa kanssa kamppailevaa viroa mollata eikä hankaloittaa heidän nousuaan ja kehittymistään länsimaiseksi valtioksi, ehkä osaltaan vaikutti myös se että ruotsalaiset olivat mukana estlinen toiminnassa ja siksi haluttiin peitellä myös sitä että hekään eivät olleet puuttuneet selkeisiin laiminlyönteihin ajoissa.

[matalanveenmanaatti]

Paljonko sulle oikein damfin maksetaan? 15 euroa tunnissa? Ei tuollaisia aivopieruja voi vapaaehtoisesti kukaan mieleensä saada.

[Ballasti]

Paljonko sulle oikein damfin maksetaan? 15 euroa tunnissa? Ei tuollaisia aivopieruja voi vapaaehtoisesti kukaan mieleensä saada.

Juuri tuollainen damfinin viestissään mainitsema vaihtoehtohan ensimmäiseksi tulee mieleen. Mikäli siis ei etsimällä etsi mahdollisimman raflaavia syitä onnettomuudelle. Alus oli huonossa kunnossa, sitä operoitiin ja huollettiin huolimattomasti ja ruotsalaiset olivat osaomistajia ja vastuussa tarkastuksista ainakin osittain. Kyllä siinäkin jo motiivia on riittämiin. Toki lisäksi voi olla muutakin, esimerkiksi arkaluonteista lastia jne.

[Starbalia]

Onko tuon Mikkosen youtube kanavalla esitetyn tiedon/väitteen pohjalta mitään oikeaa faktaa tekstinä siis?
Eli konehuoneessa työskennelleet kaksi työntekijää olivat raportoineet rampin olleen kiinni laivan ollessa n. 90 asteen kallistumiskulmassa?

[factlover]

Alus oli huonossa kunnossa, sitä operoitiin ja huollettiin huolimattomasti ja ruotsalaiset olivat osaomistajia ja vastuussa tarkastuksista ainakin osittain. Kyllä siinäkin jo motiivia on riittämiin. Toki lisäksi voi olla muutakin, esimerkiksi arkaluonteista lastia jne.

Tämähän tässä on mielenkiintoista, kun periaatteessa kaikki faktat osoittavat, että alus oli huonossa kunnossa. Erityisesti saksalainen telakkahan on näitä havaintoja paljon kerännyt ja lähtöpäivänä tehty satamatarkastus. Sinällään tuo visiirin irtoaminen huonon kunnon vuoksi voisi olla kelvollinen selitys, mutta sitten se mutta. Asiassa on vain liikaa ihan liikaa epäselvyyksiä, mitkä vesittävät tuota ainoana teoriana.

[matalanveenmanaatti]

Paljonko sulle oikein damfin maksetaan? 15 euroa tunnissa? Ei tuollaisia aivopieruja voi vapaaehtoisesti kukaan mieleensä saada.

Juuri tuollainen damfinin viestissään mainitsema vaihtoehtohan ensimmäiseksi tulee mieleen. Mikäli siis ei etsimällä etsi mahdollisimman raflaavia syitä onnettomuudelle. Alus oli huonossa kunnossa, sitä operoitiin ja huollettiin huolimattomasti ja ruotsalaiset olivat osaomistajia ja vastuussa tarkastuksista ainakin osittain. Kyllä siinäkin jo motiivia on riittämiin. Toki lisäksi voi olla muutakin, esimerkiksi arkaluonteista lastia jne.

Lukekaas uudestaan tuo 28 selviytyjän kirje. Miksi JAIC vääristelisi tapahtumien aikaa ja yksittäisten selviytyjien kokemukisa, jos tarkoitus oli peitellä aluksen kuntoa? Eihän tuossa ole mitään järkeä.

Kuten tiedätte jo, oma teoriani on, että tuota keulaa pidettiin paskassa kunnossa tahallaan, syystä että salakuljetettu materiaali piti saada uppoamistapauksessa ulos autokannelta. Meyer Werftin tutkimushan on ainoa, joka toteaa aluksen olleen merikelvoton. JAIC:n tutkimus sitä ei tee, heidän mielestään ihan täysin merikelpoinen oli.

[matalanveenmanaatti]

Onko tuon Mikkosen youtube kanavalla esitetyn tiedon/väitteen pohjalta mitään oikeaa faktaa tekstinä siis?
Eli konehuoneessa työskennelleet kaksi työntekijää olivat raportoineet rampin olleen kiinni laivan ollessa n. 90 asteen kallistumiskulmassa?

Löytyy tästäkin langasta moneen otteeseen nämä käsiteltyinä. Pääset itse lukemaan alkuperäiset todistajanlausunnot täältä:

https://www.estoniaferrydisaster.net/es ... 21.2.3.htm

Tuo sivu vie Margus Terun todistuksiin, siitä seuraa Henrik Sillaste ja Hannes Kadak, kaikki siis pällistelivät monitoria.

Tuossa hiljattain julkaistussa dokkarissa Jutta Rabe sanoo, että he olisivat katselleet monitoria autokannen alaisessa konehuoneessa 90 asteen kallistumaan asti muistaakseni. Tämä on virhe, sillä he sanovat katselleensa monitoria noin 45 asteen kallistumaan asti, ja jokainen mainitsee tämän 80-90 asteen kallistuman toteutuneen päästyään kannelle. Menivät eri reittejä, kaksi väitti menneensä savupiipun hätätien kautta, yksi ilmeisesti tavallisia portaita pitkin.

Summa summarum: ramppi pysyi koko uppoamisen ajan kiinni. Ei ole mitään todistusaineistoja siitä, että ramppi olisi missään vaiheessa ollut auki. On vain JAIC:n kuvitelmat.

[-Nixu-]

Youtubesta löytyy mielenkiintoinen video, jossa pari virolaista toimittajaa (Andres Raid ja Toomas Lepp) muistelevat tuota tapahtuma-aikaa ja mitä tapahtui kun olivat Utön saarella ja muutenkin tämän asian ympärillä.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjCzmokfFkM

Voin tehdä myöhemmin referaatin, kun ei nuo youtuben tekstitykset taida viroksi toimia.
Mutta todella korkelantoista juttua ja montakin täysin uutta asiaa.

[reinoo]

Alus oli huonossa kunnossa, sitä operoitiin ja huollettiin huolimattomasti ja ruotsalaiset olivat osaomistajia ja vastuussa tarkastuksista ainakin osittain. Kyllä siinäkin jo motiivia on riittämiin. Toki lisäksi voi olla muutakin, esimerkiksi arkaluonteista lastia jne.

Tämähän tässä on mielenkiintoista, kun periaatteessa kaikki faktat osoittavat, että alus oli huonossa kunnossa. Erityisesti saksalainen telakkahan on näitä havaintoja paljon kerännyt ja lähtöpäivänä tehty satamatarkastus. Sinällään tuo visiirin irtoaminen huonon kunnon vuoksi voisi olla kelvollinen selitys, mutta sitten se mutta. Asiassa on vain liikaa ihan liikaa epäselvyyksiä, mitkä vesittävät tuota ainoana teoriana.

Se on helppo väittää et alus on huonossa kunnossa ku mekaanikot on kadonneet niinkuin toinen kapteenikin.

[factlover]

Alus oli huonossa kunnossa, sitä operoitiin ja huollettiin huolimattomasti ja ruotsalaiset olivat osaomistajia ja vastuussa tarkastuksista ainakin osittain. Kyllä siinäkin jo motiivia on riittämiin. Toki lisäksi voi olla muutakin, esimerkiksi arkaluonteista lastia jne.

Tämähän tässä on mielenkiintoista, kun periaatteessa kaikki faktat osoittavat, että alus oli huonossa kunnossa. Erityisesti saksalainen telakkahan on näitä havaintoja paljon kerännyt ja lähtöpäivänä tehty satamatarkastus. Sinällään tuo visiirin irtoaminen huonon kunnon vuoksi voisi olla kelvollinen selitys, mutta sitten se mutta. Asiassa on vain liikaa ihan liikaa epäselvyyksiä, mitkä vesittävät tuota ainoana teoriana.

Se on helppo väittää et alus on huonossa kunnossa ku mekaanikot on kadonneet niinkuin toinen kapteenikin.

Eikö tähän riitä melkein tämä ruotsalaisten tekemä Port State Control (https://factgroup.nu/est/forgeryeng/), josta on siis alkuperäinen ja oikea versio JAIC:lla tallessa, mutta raportissa on silti käytetty väärennettyä versiota. Tähän päälle sitten kaikki todistajanlausunnot, joita telakka on kerännyt paljon.

[damfin]

Paljonko sulle oikein damfin maksetaan? 15 euroa tunnissa? Ei tuollaisia aivopieruja voi vapaaehtoisesti kukaan mieleensä saada.

Ei minulle tuosta asiasta kukaan mitään maksa, mutta jos tuolle linjalle haluat lähteä niin todennäköisemmin vaikuttaa siltä että Meyer Werft ja Estline maksaa sinulle siitä että käytät 24/7 aikaasi siihen että yrität löytää tapahtumalle minkä tahansa muun kuin laivan rakenteesta, kunnosta ja miehistön toiminnasta johtuvan selityksen.
Jos minulle siitä maksettaisiin, niin ehkä minäkin postaisin tänne sivukaupalla pitkiä saman asian läpikäymisiä ja käyttäisin kaiken aikani asiani läpi puskemiseen... mutta kun minulle ei siitä makseta niin pitäydyn järkeen käyvissä faktoissa.

[sikakoira]

Reikä kyljessä ei kyllä laivan yleisestä kunnosta johdu vaikka kuinka nyt yritetään hämmentää

[matalanveenmanaatti]

Paljonko sulle oikein damfin maksetaan? 15 euroa tunnissa? Ei tuollaisia aivopieruja voi vapaaehtoisesti kukaan mieleensä saada.

Ei minulle tuosta asiasta kukaan mitään maksa, mutta jos tuolle linjalle haluat lähteä niin todennäköisemmin vaikuttaa siltä että Meyer Werft ja Estline maksaa sinulle siitä että käytät 24/7 aikaasi siihen että yrität löytää tapahtumalle minkä tahansa muun kuin laivan rakenteesta, kunnosta ja miehistön toiminnasta johtuvan selityksen.
Jos minulle siitä maksettaisiin, niin ehkä minäkin postaisin tänne sivukaupalla pitkiä saman asian läpikäymisiä ja käyttäisin kaiken aikani asiani läpi puskemiseen... mutta kun minulle ei siitä makseta niin pitäydyn järkeen käyvissä faktoissa.

Estline meni konkurssiin jo 20 vuotta sitte ja Meyer Werft vapautettiin täydellisesti vastuusta onnettomuuteen viime vuoden kesällä. Heidän ei siis tarvitse täällä itseään puolustella. Ainoat tahot, jotka tässä vielä odottaa vastuuseen joutumista, on JAIC sekä muut viranomais- ja valtiotahot, jotka on tätä perätöntä paskaa suoltaneet kuluneet 26 vuotta.

Lähde: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-49050382

[damfin]

Paljonko sulle oikein damfin maksetaan? 15 euroa tunnissa? Ei tuollaisia aivopieruja voi vapaaehtoisesti kukaan mieleensä saada.

Ei minulle tuosta asiasta kukaan mitään maksa, mutta jos tuolle linjalle haluat lähteä niin todennäköisemmin vaikuttaa siltä että Meyer Werft ja Estline maksaa sinulle siitä että käytät 24/7 aikaasi siihen että yrität löytää tapahtumalle minkä tahansa muun kuin laivan rakenteesta, kunnosta ja miehistön toiminnasta johtuvan selityksen.
Jos minulle siitä maksettaisiin, niin ehkä minäkin postaisin tänne sivukaupalla pitkiä saman asian läpikäymisiä ja käyttäisin kaiken aikani asiani läpi puskemiseen... mutta kun minulle ei siitä makseta niin pitäydyn järkeen käyvissä faktoissa.

Estline meni konkurssiin jo 20 vuotta sitte ja Meyer Werft vapautettiin täydellisesti vastuusta onnettomuuteen viime vuoden kesällä. Heidän ei siis tarvitse täällä itseään puolustella. Ainoat tahot, jotka tässä vielä odottaa vastuuseen joutumista, on JAIC sekä muut viranomais- ja valtiotahot, jotka on tätä perätöntä paskaa suoltaneet kuluneet 26 vuotta.

Lähde: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-49050382

Luehan nyt vielä kerran tuo kommenttini joka sinua niin kovin ärsytti...

Tuokin kertoo enimmäkseen siitä että laivan kuntoa ja miehistön välinpitämättömyyttä ja laiminlyöntejä haluttiin peitellä todistajien lausuntoja kaunistelemalla, sitä en tiedä miksi näin mutta ehkä tuohon aikaan ei haluttu taloutensa kanssa kamppailevaa viroa mollata eikä hankaloittaa heidän nousuaan ja kehittymistään länsimaiseksi valtioksi, ehkä osaltaan vaikutti myös se että ruotsalaiset olivat mukana estlinen toiminnassa ja siksi haluttiin peitellä myös sitä että hekään eivät olleet puuttuneet selkeisiin laiminlyönteihin ajoissa.

Nyt sitten kun olet tuon lukenut ihan ajatuksella, niin osoittaisitko siitä sen kohdan jossa puolusteltiin JAIC:n raporttia?
Minähän toin siinä esille asioita joita raportissa todennäköisesti peiteltiin, enkä suinkaan kiistänyt etteikö raportissa olisi kaunisteltu ja vääristelty todistajien lausuntoja.

[matalanveenmanaatti]

Konteksti. Aina on ymmärrettävä konteksti. Tässä kontekstina on etenkin se, että JAIC on peitellyt oleellisia tietoja, joita silminnäkijät ovat kertoneet. Esimerkiksi pamauksen äänet on poistettu raportista kokonaan, mutta niistä kertoo suuri osa selviytyjistä.

Tässä juttu kuukauden takaa, jossa Tuomo Karppinen ahkerasti vielä väittää, ettei kukaan kuullut pamauksen ääntä.

Teräksen repeytymisestä kuuluu kova ääni

Estonialta pelastuneista ihmisistä kukaan ei ole kertonut kuulleensa laivan kyljen reiän syntymisestä aiheutuneita ääniä. Kannanoton mukaan ihmisiä pelastui laivan konehuoneen lisäksi myös sellaisista hyteistä, jotka ovat aivan reiän lähellä.

– Laitalevytys oli 8-10 millimetriä paksua terästä. Jos sellaista lähdetään repimään, lähteehän siitä ihan kauhea ääni, Karppinen toteaa.

Neljä metriä korkea reikä ulottuu Iivosen ja Karppisen mukaan autokannelta ainakin sen alla olleeseen hyttiosastoon. Heidän mukaansa Estonian järjestelmäkonemestari sekä muut konevalvomossa työskennelleet ja sieltä pelastuneet eivät ole kertoneet havainneensa laivan sisällä vettä muualla kuin autokannella.

Tutkintakomissio julkaisi Estonian onnettomuudesta loppuraportin vuonna 1997. Tietoja onnettomuudesta ja pelastuneista on julkaistu myös The Naval Architect -lehdessä vuosina 1998 ja 1999.

Estonian uppoamisessa vuonna 1994 kuoli 852 ihmistä ja pelastui 137.

Lähde: https://www.sss.fi/2020/09/viron-ex-val ... tkinnassa/

Aijai, että muuten nyt tuntuu hyvältä nyt nimittäin sillä tämähän tarkoittaa sitä että tässä pääsee ocd tulille eli nyt tehdään kuulkaas lista! Teen siis nyt puhtaasta listan tekemisen riemusta listan kaikista selviytyjistä, jotka kuulivat reiän tulemiseen sopivaa ääntä ja/tai näkivät autokannen alla vettä.

Tässä muuten lurkkaajille idea: kopioikaa tämä viesti ja laittakaa kaikille toimittajille, jotka ovat tehneet juttuja perustuen tähän Tuomo Karppisen sanomisiin, ettei kukaan kuullut pamausta. Suomessa toimittajilla on vastuu korjata, mikäli vääriä tietoja julkaisevat, ja jos oikein räikeä on väärän tiedon julkaisu niin ovat velvotettuja tekemään uuden jutun.

Laitan tähän Meyer Werftin raportin tiivistelmät ja alle linkin, josta pääsee katsomaan alkuperäisen todistajanlausunnon eli ihan ottaa oman silmän käteen ja nähdä, miten ensimmäisinä päivinä onnettomuuden jälkeen suurin osa selviytyjistä raportoi pamauksista. Olen ottanut tähän vain vapaalla olleita miehistön jäseniä ja matkustajia eli kaikki 130 selviytyjää, joita JAIC ei suostunut virallisesti kuulemaan.

Olen lisännyt tähän listaan vain he, jotka selkeästi kuulivat pamauksen tai näkivät vettä autokannen alla. Olen jättänyt pois he, joista ei löydy virallista kuulustelupöytäkirjaa. Jätin tästä pois sellaiset, jotka mainitsevat esimerkiksi "oudot äänet", sillä se ei ole tarpeeksi täsmällistä. Tässä siis vain selkeät tapaukset; todennäköisesti näitä on lisää, mutta kukaan ei koskaan ottanut heiltä ammattimaisesti lausuntoa. Poliisit eivät välttämättä osaa kysyä oikeita kysymyksiä liittyen merionnettomuustutkintaan.

Reports from Deck 1 - Passenger Area

1. Jaan Stern - cabin 1120 - 53 years old (Estonian)

- most forward cabin in the centre line directly behind the water ballast tanks with the door opening to aft;
- was in cabin which he had to leave because water was already entering the cabin;
- heard immediately before casualty that waves were beating very hard against the vessel, then silence, then the vessel fell on the side.

Lausunto 29.9.1994: https://web.archive.org/web/20040329214 ... .1.286.htm


2. Ulla Marianne Tenman - cabin 1098 - 30 years old

- was in her cabin before the casualty;
- some time before the casualty heard several hard bangs and something beating against something which she considered to be strange and dangerous, therefore she decided to go up to deck 7 and wait to see what would happen;
- after she had been sometime on deck 7 she heard a heavy bang and subsequently the vessel heeled to starboard.

Note: It is uncertain when she went up. Possibly the "something beating against something" could have been the 'sledge-hammer noises' heard by Carl Övberg in his cabin starboard side in the 4th compartment. He had heard these noises about 15-20 minutes before the heel. At this time most probably there was no water on the 1st deck.

Lausunto 4.10.1994: https://web.archive.org/web/20040430134 ... .1.288.htm


3. Carl-Erik Reintamm - cabin 1094 - 26 years old

- went to bed at 23.00-23.30 hours (probably Swedish time);
- woke up when shortly afterwards he suddenly heard 2 strong, strange noises, scraping noises which came from below as if the vessel proceeded through ice (which he had heard many times before);
- he realised that it could not be ice but had to be something different below water and jumped out of the bed while the vessel heeled about 10° to starboard;
- he also realised that there was something definitely wrong and that he had to get up to the lifeboat deck as soon as possible
- he left his cabin at once and found a lot of water in the alleyway;
- when he passed the shower/WC area on his way into the stairway he saw water about 0.4 m high which was rushing along the longitudinal wall with speed;

Lausunto 30.9.1994: https://web.archive.org/web/20040329213 ... .1.289.htm


4. Carl Övberg - cabin 1049:

- at about 22.30 hours (Swedish time) down to the cabin and to bed;
- he woke up suddenly from the strong noise of rushing water which he could hear from both sides, but loudest from starboard side; these noises alarmed him;
- in addition he heard quite strong metallic banging noises which definitely had not been there before; he sat up in bed and put his feet on the floor, since the bed was athwartships he was facing the door looking aft;
- he lit a cigarette and listened intently to the strange and frightening noise scenario;
- after a little while he suddenly heard the starting up noise of an hydraulic pump or pumps followed by the clicking of valves and then the typical noise created by an hydraulic system under load;
- simultaneously he heard the banging of sledge hammers;
- the noises came probably from forward;
- the hydraulic under load noise faded away and came back again whilst the sledge-hammer banging noise more or less continued. Both the hydraulic noise and the sledge-hammer banging noise continued for ca. 10-15 minutes whilst the other banging noises, then heard already for some 20-25 minutes, also continued;
- the hydraulic noise and the sledge-hammer noise stopped with a short, sharp metallic crash which gave him the impression that something heavy, metallic had broken;
- after a 'silence' of 30-40 seconds the next really extreme crash followed in connection with an abrupt stopping of the ferry which was so 'sudden' that he was thrown against the front wall of his bed;
it was a short, sharp intense crash as if the ship had struck against something;
- he jumped out of his bed and put his clothes on very quickly when he realised that all the engine noises had stopped and that the ferry was now making much softer pitch movements; this must have been at about 01.00 hours.
- he rushed out of his cabin, turned right towards the stairway, around the aft part of it, through the open WT-door (watertight) towards aft, but turned around after some meters and headed forward, by now the vessel had started making sideway movements (rolling), the door at the port side of the stairway was either open or missing, and he rushed through it;
- he turned right up the stairs when his coat got caught at the beginning of the right handrail, he turned round to his right and looked over his right shoulder out through the door opening into the alleyway;
- he saw 2 goosenecks next to the cabin wall, as indicated on the drawing on the pages 517/518;
- out of these goosenecks water was streaming under great pressure, he also saw water penetrating the door forward of these goosenecks in the 3rd compartment which belonged to a cleaning room;
- he saw the water running over the floors;
- he had freed his jacket and he rushed up the stairs;
- when he was about half way up to the car deck the vessel heeled suddenly and abruptly more than 45°, probably 50° or 60°;

Övbergin alkuperäinen lausunto otettiin 10.10.1994, mutta sitä ei ole saatavilla. Tämä lausunto otettiin 9.9.1997: https://web.archive.org/web/20040430134 ... .2.151.htm


5. Holger Wachtmeister - cabin 1047 - 41 years old

- he was awakened by a scraping noise and a hard bang - the scraping noise continued;
- he got up and dressed and left the cabin when the vessel heeled;
- saw water when he passed the car deck possibly already below in front of his cabin.

Note: His cabin was adjacent to the cabin of Carl Övberg who rushed up before the heel and saw water. Since Holger Wachtmeister followed Övberg after the heel, he must certainly have seen even more water when he left his cabin and subsequently entered the door to the stairway, which he indicated in an addendum (attached to his statement).

Lausunto 1.10.1994 : https://web.archive.org/web/20040430134 ... .2.232.htm


6. Antti Arak - cabin 1056 - 21 years old

- "At first I heard screaming and then I saw water running in the alleyway. I heard no engine noises when we were pulling us up the stairs. The lights were normal until we reached the railing on deck 7, when it began to blink."

Lausunto 29.9.1994: https://web.archive.org/web/20040119055 ... .1.290.htm


7. Ain-Alar Juhanson - cabin 1056 - 18 years old

- "Whilst I was asleep I heard a heavier bang which I had heard before already, but not so heavy. After that bang the vessel suddenly heeled to starboard. All 4 of us woke up, grabbed our clothes and jumped into the alleyway, where we noted water."

Lausunto 29.9.1994 Turussa: https://web.archive.org/web/20040119060 ... .1.291.htm

- "We were one of the last to enter the car deck with our Mercedes bus. We were all sleeping in our cabin when we woke up from heavy metallic bangs. Due to these noises it was impossible to hear any engine noises. After the mentioned metallic bangs the vessel heeled to starboard."

Lausunto 29.9.1994 Tallinnassa: https://web.archive.org/web/20040329214 ... .291.1.htm


8. Jasmina Waidinger - cabin 1027

- went to bed ca. 23.30 hours (Swedish time) and changed beds shortly afterwards with Daniel Svensson;
- both heard strange noises "as if the sea was striking against the vessel's bow";
- they discussed the situation when Daniel's alarm clock rang at midnight;
- she dozed for some minutes - she believes ca. 5 - when there was a "hard bang" from the car deck;
- at the same time the vessel heeled over to starboard and Daniel Svensson rushed out of the cabin while she dressed and followed;
- when she jumped out of her cabin door she saw water in the alleyway which trickled from somewhere;
- she estimates the time from hearing the "hard bang" to being washed overboard when the vessel was on the side at about 1/2 hour.

Lausunto 29.9.1994: https://web.archive.org/web/20040430134 ... .1.296.htm

- went to the cabin ca. 23.15 - 23.20 hours (Swedish time);
- at ca. 23.30 hours went to another cabin to ask for pills, noticed nothing abnormal then;
- when she was in her bed she heard banging noises which she and Daniel Svensson did not consider to be normal; - they discussed this and she thought of the stabilisers, how they might function, etc. when she heard a rushing sound, which was low in its intensity and which she had not heard before;
- it seemed to her that the rushing sound came from above and appeared to her like water running rather slowly;
- they heard the sound of Daniel's clock indicating midnight which was confirmed when she looked at her watch;
- she was lying in her bed dozing a bit, but did not sleep when she suddenly heard the strong noise above her cabin ceiling which appeared to her to be "something big and strong moving from one place to another";
- immediately after this noise the vessel heeled over and Daniel shouted that they had to get out at once;
- at the same time when Daniel jumped out of the cabin door he shouted that "there was water in the alleyway";
- outside the cabin she was able to lean against a wall and pull up her jeans when she saw water penetrating the floor in front of the cabin.

Lausunto 4.10.1994: https://web.archive.org/web/20040329213 ... .1.297.htm


9. Bengt Nilsson - cabin 1026 - 35 years old

- at ca. 23.00 hours - must be Swedish time - he went to bed, but could not sleep due to heavy labouring of the vessel and something beating frequently against the hull very heavily;
- he noted after an hour or so that it began to roar (scream, howl), squeak, shriek, scrape and finally he heard a sharp metallic breaking noise at the starboard side and aft of him, and formed the opinion that something was wrong;

Note: His cabin was next to the cabin of Martin Nilsson, i.e. also above the starboard heeling tanks/starboard stabiliser space. He was lying in his bed with his head aft. The noises came from starboard aft of abeam.

Lausunto 4.10.1994: https://web.archive.org/web/20040430134 ... 20.238.htm


10. Dainis Sleiners - cabin 1015

- went to the cabin at 22.00 hours, there was no water in the alleyway;
- was in bed and woke up, a heavy bang followed by the heeling, the whole vessel was shaking - he believes it was 01.30 hours - he did not hear the engines anymore - which he had done before;
- he remembers having heard low indefinable strange noises when he was still dozing before he was awakened by the heavy bang;
- on his way up he passed the 2nd deck, i.e. the first car deck and saw water in the alleyway.

Lausunto 30.9.1994: https://web.archive.org/web/20040329213 ... .1.302.htm


11. Nikolajs Andrejev - cabin 1016 - Enclosure 21.3.1.303:

- was asleep in the lower bunk when the vessel heeled so much that he fell out of his bunk on to the floor;
- at the same time he heard and felt an extremely hard bang which was so hard that he was thrown against the cabin wall;
- he was unable to identify from where the bang came, but it felt as if the vessel had collided with something and at the same time was heeling over extremely;
- they rushed upwards and when they passed the 2nd deck (car deck) cold water came from the vessel's side, he cannot say exactly where it came from and it was not in big quantities.

lausunto 29.9.1994: https://web.archive.org/web/20040329213 ... .1.303.htm


Reports from Deck 4

12. Anders Ericson - cabin 4131 - 45 years old - port outside (3rd cabin from forward)

went to cabin at 22.15 hours (Swedish time), but impossible to sleep, each time the vessel met a wave it was shaking/vibrating severely;

ca. 24.00 hours (Swedish time) came suddenly two heavy bangs, one straight after the other which almost threw him out of his athwartships bed, he realised that something must be wrong, thus got up and dressed himself

Lausunto 4.10.1994: https://web.archive.org/web/20040328194 ... 20.239.htm


13. Mikael Öun - cabin 4217 - port inside, middle.

was in bed and continuously heard banging noises which he believed to be caused by the waves hitting against the bow;
he slept a bit and woke up again and finally was fully awake when he heard a particularly loud bang and because the vessel started to behave differently in the sea state;
he noticed that the vessel started to roll from side to side instead of pitching against the sea;
he also heard 3 heavy scraping noises which followed straight one after the other with some seconds in between and after these scraping noises the vessel heeled severely to starboard;

Lausunto 4.10.1994: https://web.archive.org/web/20040430134 ... .2.225.htm


14. Eckard Klug - cabin 4214 - 54 years old - port inside middle

was in bed, heard many bangs which he had never heard on his many previous voyages, in his opinion these were cars floating on the car deck;
in his opinion the unsecured cars and trucks had moved forward against the bow ramp due to the hard setting in of vessel's bow and forced the bow ramp open and this is the cause of the casualty;
Klug heard in addition to the above explained bangs a bang which was heavy as if breaking of a thick plate;
they got up and by the time he had reached the cabin door the starboard heel started;
when he reached the boat-deck the list was about 30°.

Note: When being questioned in October 1999 Eckard Klug stated to have information that the bow ramp had not been secured at all.

Lausunto 1.10.1994: https://web.archive.org/web/20040327145 ... .2.221.htm


15. Stephan Duijndam - cabin 4221 - port inside middle

at 23.00 hours to bed;
woke up at 01.00 hours from a noise as if the vessel had collided with something, heard several cracking/crashing noises thereafter;
a little later the vessel heeled to starboard to such an extent that he was thrown out of his bed;
met chaos everywhere on his way up;
on 7th deck was an officer with white shirt and walkie-talkie.

Lausunto: https://web.archive.org/web/20040327145 ... .2.220.htm


16. Jukka Pekka Ihalainen - cabin 4212 - port inside - (cabin mate of truck driver Leo Sillanpää)

truck driver who had previously been with the Coast Guard/Navy at Russarö;
to bed at 22.30 hours, woke up due to radio music at 00.32 hours, turned down the sound and slept again;
woke up again shortly afterwards from 3 very hard bangs/crashes;
realised that engines were reduced and stopped;
then the vessel heeled and drifted with wind and sea;
saw the other two ferries at port side (could not believe that ESTONIA had changed course so much after the heel);

Lausunto 28.9.1994: https://web.archive.org/web/20040329214 ... .2.305.htm


17. Tony Spuhl - cabin 4313 - 2nd cabin starboard forward outside

could not sleep due to labouring of vessel;
looked frequently out of the window;
listened for the noises which the bow created when smashing into the waves and thought spontaneously that the vessel should not be going so fast against such waves;
he noted after a while that the engine noises became different and he got the impression that the vessel reduced the speed;
he was lying there and continued to listen to the noises and the roaring was quite severe when the waves slammed against the bow;
after a while he heard an enormous crash and the whole vessel was shaking/vibrating;
he looked out of the window and is not really sure whether the vessel was proceeding ahead or was lying still (did not move);
the normal roaring noises remained when the bow was slamming into the waves, but then came "2 metallic noises", which sounded like "klonk-klonk" directly after the bow was setting into the sea;
when the next wave hit the bow Tony Spuhl heard something which sounded like "klonk-klonk-klonk", 3 times. Directly thereafter he heard a rushing noise below his cabin. The noise came from the car deck.
he was still lying in his bed and heard this rushing sound once more;
his partner René by then was also awake and he said: "Something is wrong, we must get out of the cabin."
Whilst Spuhl was jumping out of his bed, he saw René opening the door, at this very moment the vessel heeled suddenly to starboard.

Lausunto 6.10.1994: https://web.archive.org/web/20040327150 ... .2.228.htm


18. Morten Boje Jensen - 28 years old - cabin 4603 - port outside, 2nd cabin behind the Reception

ca. 22.40 hours Swedish time in bed - 23.00 hours switched off the light, but could not sleep, he heard continuous "small banging noises" which did not appear to him to be natural.
after a certain time, cannot say how much later, he heard 3 "bangs" one after the other. Between the first and the 2nd a car alarm sounded below him, but not after the 3rd one which came from port side;
shortly afterwards the ferry heeled to (he said port) must be starboard side and simultaneously he heard below himself the noise of a large object moving from port to starboard. After some seconds he jumped out of bed and left the cabin;
could not reach the centre stairway directly because his alleyway was blocked by iron bars to forward, had to go back and then over to the starboard alleyway which was clear.

Lausunto 6.10.1994: https://web.archive.org/web/20040430134 ... .2.308.htm


19. Anneli Konrad - cabin 4620 - dance girl - port inside, 3rd last cabin

shared cabin with Hannely Veide, both were making first trip, thus were not yet acquainted with the vessel;
last performance ended at ca. 00.30 hours, whereafter she made her way to her cabin;
she got lost and ended up by the lift on the 2nd car deck, where she heard a "crash";
came finally to her cabin, felt sick, no water in toilet;

Note: Henrik Sillaste was working on the non-functioning vacuum system in the engine room on 0-deck level at that time.

she switched off the light in her cabin to sleep, but it continued to blink (on/off);
apparently must have slept, because she stated having woken up due to a "crash" and the vessel was shaking whereafter she felt that the vessel heeled over.

Lausunto 18.11.1994: https://web.archive.org/web/20040328194 ... .4.283.htm


20. Wanda Wachtmeister - cabin 4618 - 4th deck - next cabin further aft.

in bed - could not sleep - b]suddenly she heard "ett brak" = one crash - this was a loud bang and thereafter the vessel started to heel to starboard[/b].

Lausunto 29.9.1994: https://web.archive.org/web/20040328194 ... 20.247.htm

in bed - heard a heavy loud noise - "bom" - a noise of the type that makes you realise at once that something is wrong;
the vessel heeled substantially to starboard and maintained the list;
upon being questioned with what she could associate the noise "bom" she said it came from the bottom of the vessel, from the same hull, a clear, distinct "bom" - not rattle;
when she reached the deck above, i.e. 7th deck, she looked at her watch and it was 00.05 hours Swedish time = 01.05 hours ship's time.

Lausunto 1.10.1994: https://web.archive.org/web/20040329214 ... .2.309.htm


21. Yngve Lien - deck passenger in cinema in the aft part of deck 4

ca. 23.00 hours to sleep;
heard a heavy noise and the vessel heeled to starboard.

Lausunto 7.10.1994: https://web.archive.org/web/20040329214 ... .2.314.htm


22. Raivo Tönisson - cabin 4426 - starboard inside

heard and felt hard blows/bangs between 00.00-01.00 hours;
at 01.00 hours heavy bang and shortly later the vessel heeled wide to starboard, everything slid over to the deep side.

Lausunto 29.9.1994: https://web.archive.org/web/20040327145 ... .2.230.htm


Reports from Deck 5

23. Sten Jolind - cabin 5135 - first outside cabin, port side, forward

was on deck 7 several times and looked over the foreship; heard heavy bangs and thought that the vessel was going much too fast;
at 00.00 hours to bed;
before 01.00 hours 2-3 really heavy bangs from forward; got up and dressed;
when he had just opened the door the vessel heeled abruptly and widely to starboard and everything slid against the door;
at first no one was in the alleyways;
the vessel heeled stepwise.

Lausunto 8.11.1994: https://web.archive.org/web/20040330191 ... .3.318.htm


24. Leif Bogren - cabin 5128 - port inside, 4th cabin from forward

to bed at 23.30 hours (Swedish time);
vessel behaved like a small boat also does when slamming over the waves - explains the many noises created by a vessel proceeding against heavy seas;
so he was lying there and listened and suddenly there was the bom-bom, which was no more the same noise, it was not a good noise;
he continued lying still and listening, and was fascinated about why they were proceeding so fast?
from the time he went to bed to the first unusual noise bom-bom to when the engines stopped maybe 10-15 minutes had passed, i.e. it was 23.40/23.45 hours Swedish time;
at first there was an additional sound with this bom - an enormous bom-bom - then came bom;
he was lying awake and then came the next BOM.
This was definitely a different noise, now the sea was higher and they were proceeding slowly against it and then came the next VROM BOM, now they were smashing in the hull plates of the vessel and then there was also a CRASH.
Now they must go down to half speed was his next thought, and the engines stopped.
Had they reduced to half ahead he would not have felt uneasy, but to stop the engines? Engines are not stopped from full ahead and at that time the vessel had not yet started to heel to starboard.
Ca. 1 minute after the engines had stopped the vessel heeled to starboard (20°).
It took him ca. 5 min. to reach deck 7 (2 decks up) and then the vessel had a list of already ca. 45°.

Lausunto 1.10.1994: https://web.archive.org/web/20040328195 ... 20.242.htm


25. Siegfried Wolf - 5th deck - near Tax Free Shop

ca. 10 minutes before the big heel there was a first shock through the vessel;
next came the main shock and everything flew/slid to the deep side - the engines stopped.

Lausunto: 29.9.1994: https://web.archive.org/web/20031221014 ... .3.322.htm


26. Paul Barney - in the Café Neptunus

woke up from a bang/shock and thought there had been a collision;
then he heard cracking and scraping noises and something was gliding along the vessel's hull side;
he got up to look what was going on when the vessel suddenly heeled very widely to starboard and the furniture moved to the deep side.

Lausunto 24.11.1994: https://web.archive.org/web/20040330190 ... .3.325.htm


27. Sarah Hedrenius - in the Café Neptunus

asleep since ca. 21.30 hours, but felt the hard movements;
woke up from two heavy bangs which made the vessel shake (she thought they had hit a rock), vessel moved up and down;
she fell almost back to sleep, but not for long when the big heel occurred and she knew that it was very serious now;
made it to the 7th deck where she met Kent Härstedt;
at first the stern appeared to be higher than the bow and they started to walk aft, when the situation changed and the bow went up and the stern down.

Lausunto 2.10.1994: https://web.archive.org/web/20040330190 ... .3.326.htm


28. Pierre Thiger - Admiral's Pub on deck 5 - together with Altti Hakanpää

ca. 23.45 hours (Swedish time) = 00.45 hours ship's time he heard a dull bang and ca. 1/2 minute later a similar bang, these were really sharp and short sounds which he clearly heard in spite of the music. The vessel was shaking somewhat. The noises were not created by waves striking against the bow;
ca. 3 minutes after he had heard the mentioned noises he felt that the vessel was swinging/rocking athwartships not just from side to side. He was very surprised about the behaviour of the vessel.
these swinging movements repeated themselves 3-4 times, simultaneously the vessel was shaking somewhat;
Pierre Thiger has spent some time at sea and has experience with the behaviour of large vessels, therefore he observed rather closely the behaviour of ESTONIA.
ca. 10 minutes after he had heard the before mentioned noises the vessel began to roll from side to side, and thereafter remained with a starboard list of 10°-15°;
the vessel did not return to normal;
he is of the opinion that it was some minutes before 24.00 hours (Swedish time) when the vessel took the first heavy starboard list;
they left the bar immediately and when they reached the exit the vessel heeled further to ca. 30°, at which she steadied;
the only crew member they saw was carrying a walkie-talkie or the like;
when he reached deck 7 the heel was ca. 35°, increasing;
at ca. 45° the lights went out, but returned.

Lausunto 3.10.1994: https://web.archive.org/web/20040330191 ... .3.327.htm


29. Ronnie Bergqvist - Policeman ST Section

vessel started to shake and vibrate;
bar personnel took down the bottles from the shelves;
just after 01.00 hours the vessel heeled first to port, then followed a very hard push combined with a bang/crash and then the vessel heeled very severely to starboard.
all loose objects flew over to the deep side

Lausunto 17.10.1994: https://web.archive.org/web/20040330191 ... .3.328.htm


30. Maria Fägersten - Policewoman ST Section

heavy pitching all the time;
at about midnight the vessel ran against something and she and all the others were looking out of the windows but could see nothing;
then the vessel started to shake/vibrate;
at 00.45 hours the casualty sequence-of-events began, glasses above the bar fell out of their holdings;
suddenly everything flew over to one side when the vessel heeled over very rapidly, people were thrown against the wall - she was able to hold on to the bar: "The ship came over me!" - The clock above the bar showed 01.05 hours.

Lausunto 2.10.1994: https://web.archive.org/web/20040330191 ... .3.330.htm


31. Kent Härstedt - member of a social team

was sleeping in his cabin on deck 4;
ca. 00.00 hours woke up from a "muffled" sound which was nevertheless "heavy" - like something moving from side to side and then crashing against the hull with force;
felt uneasy and joined his colleagues in the "Pub Admiral";
after he had been there for ca. 30 minutes the vessel started to shake and roll from side to side, lots of bottles fell out of the shelves;
the vessel came back to upright position and then heeled again to starboard;
45° heel when he reached the 7th deck, where he met Sara Hedrenius.

Lausunto 2.10.1994: http://www.estoniaferrydisaster.net/estonia final report/enclosures HTM/enc 2/21.3.3.332.htm


32. Urban Lambertsson - Estline employee (booking manager)

Karaoke Bar;
had been together with marketing manager Tomas Persson visiting Estline, Tallinn (Marja Brannbrück);
ca. 01.00 hours strange high noise and vessel heeled slightly to starboard, some glasses fell down;
ca. 1 minutes later severe heel to starboard

Lausunto 5.10.1994: https://web.archive.org/web/20040330190 ... .3.338.htm


Reports from Deck 6

33. Marianne Ehn - cabin 6222 - 59 years old

was asleep in her cabin with her husband - woke up from lots of noises in the vessel - it was so terrible - she asked her husband for the time and he looked at his watch - it was 01.00 hours;
shortly afterwards the vessel was diving into a deep wave trough, there was a heavy bang - the vessel heeled severely and the engines stopped;
before this she had already noticed that something was beating heavily against the vessel.

Lausunto 3.10.1994: https://web.archive.org/web/20040330191 ... .4.340.htm


34. Alexander Voronin - cabin 6320 or cabin 6230

cabin 6320 together with cousin Vassili and uncle Vasili Krjutjkov;
ca. 00.30 hours very hard bang;
slight heel to starboard, some minutes later another much stronger bang, more heeling;
another bang and vessel heeled further;
aft part was under water when he went overboard.

Lausunto 3.10.1994: https://web.archive.org/web/20040330191 ... .4.342.htm


35. Christer Eklöf - cabin 4219

On the evening of the 27.09.94 he was sitting in the Baltic Bar at port side, deck 6, until the performance of the dance group from Pörnu was ended due to violent movements of the vessel. This was about 00.00 hours Estonian time. The vessel was pitching extremely hard which caused the hull to shake and vibrate almost continuously.
After a while, he believes it was ca. 24.00 hours ST / 01.00 hours ET, the first of three very heavy bangs was felt and the foreship was rising and fell back and there was another heavy bang, the foreship rose again and the third bang - metal to metal - was heard and felt, followed by the heel to starboard.
There was less than one minute between the last bang and the heel to starboard.
The third most wide heel was followed by tremendous crashes, e.g. from the tax-free shop, when everything loose moved to the deep starboard side.
He quickly made his way of the deck 7 and got out to the open deck when he heard "Haire, haire" from the loudspeakers.
When he looked around he saw the bow turning towards the moon, which he believes, was in the Southeast. He did not see any other vessel.

Lausunto 1.10.1994: https://web.archive.org/web/20040331153 ... .4.346.htm


Reports from Deck 7


36. Tanel Moosaar - motorman - cabin 7008

23.00 hours to cabin, hard bangs, vessel's doors were banging, thought vessel had run aground, 01.20 or 01.15 hours;
heavy heel to starboard which woke him up;
while getting dressed heard a female voice calling "alarm, alarm";
before that he had heard "Mr. Skylight to No. 1 and 2".

Lausunto 29.9.1994_ https://web.archive.org/web/20040331153 ... .5.366.htm


37. Ervin Roden - safety officer - cabin 7013

to bed at 21.00 hours, had been on car deck before;
felt one bang and the vessel was shaking, after some time another bang, the vessel rocked;
heavy heel to starboard, which caused him to slide to the foot end of his bed;
took 10 minutes to reach the outside of deck 7, 45°.

Lausunto 29.9.1994: https://web.archive.org/web/20040430134 ... .5.370.htm


38. Raivo Sinimi - cabin 754

some minutes after 01.00 hours he felt a heavy shock (push/blow) in the vessel, ca. 01.03 hours heel;
everything fell down;
heard "alarm" and subsequently "Mr. Skylight to No. 1 and 2".

Lausunto 29.9.1994: https://web.archive.org/web/20040331153 ... .5.371.htm


39. Ulla Marianne Tenman - outside on deck 7 - starboard side

from her cabin 1098 she went up to deck 7 and waited, suddenly heavy bang and the vessel heeled;
some time before casualty heard heavy bangs and something beating against the hull.

Lausunto 4.10.1994: https://web.archive.org/web/20040329213 ... .1.288.htm

Kannelt kuusi eteenpäin suurin osa ei enää mainitse kuulleensa pamausta, mutta mainitsevat silti että kallistuma tapahtui pyöreästi puolilta öin. Seitsemänneltä kannelta vain viisi selviytyjää kuuli pamauksia (yhden jätin pois, koska lausunnon linkit ei toimineet). Seitsemänneltä kannelta selvisi 21 ihmistä.

Näin ollen selkeästikin 1. kannen ja 4. kannen hyteissä (toisella ja kolmannella ei ollut hyttejä) olleet on kuulleet pamaukset todennäköisemmin.

Elikkäs. Tässä on nyt listattuna 39 selviytyjää, jotka kuulivat pamauksia ja/tai näkivät vettä autokannen alla. Asioita, joita JAIC:n mielestä ei tapahtunut. Jos luette JAIC:n raporttia, ei yksikään näistä pamauksista ole päätynyt minkään kerroksen tarinaan. Voitte siis itse katsoa ja todeta, että huh huh mitä puppua se Onnettomuustutkintakeskus oikein liputtaa vielä vuonna 2020. Tai siis pokkana väittää, ettei kukaan kuullut pamauksen pamausta tai nähnyt vettä autokannen alla...

Eli 137:stä selviytyjästä 39 kuuli ja näki asioita, mitä JAIC ei laittanut raporttiinsa. Ajatelkaapas.