ABC kirjoitti:
Olen antanut itseni ymmärtää, että tuo 616 on nimenomaan se alkuperäinen luku, joka esiintyy kaikkein vanhimmissa versioissa.
Niin, itse asiassa aiheesta on väännetty aika paljonkin etenkin sen jälkeen kun ns. Papyrus 115:n teksti on tullut laajempaan tietoisuuteen. Toisaalta teema on vielä huomattavasti vanhempi, sillä kirkkoisä
Irenaeus otti asiaan varsin perusteellisesti ja monisanaisesti kantaa jo n. v. 180 kuuluisassa teoksessaan
Harhaoppeja vastaan (Adversus haereses tai alkuperäiseltä nimeltään ἔλεγχος και άνατροπή της ψευδωνύμου γνώσεως) eli jo selvästi ennen ko. papyrusta, jonka arvioidaan ajoittuvan n. vuosiin 225-275. Näin Irenaeus asiasta:
CHAP. XXX.--ALTHOUGH CERTAIN AS TO THE NUMBER OF THE NAME OF
ANTICHRIST, YET WE SHOULD COME TO NO RASH CONCLUSIONS AS TO THE NAME
ITSELF, BECAUSE THIS NUMBER IS CAPABLE OF BEING FITTED TO MANY NAMES.
REASONS FOR THIS POINT BEING RESERVED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT. ANTICHRIST'S
REIGN AND DEATH.
1. Such, then, being the state of the case, and this number being
found in all the most approved and ancient copies [of the
Apocalypse], and those men who saw John face to face bearing their
testimony [to it]; while reason also leads us to conclude that the
number of the name of the beast, [if reckoned] according to the Greek
mode of calculation by the [value of] the letters contained in it,
will amount to six hundred and sixty and six; that is, the number of
tens shall be equal to that of the hundreds, and the number of
hundreds equal to that of the units (for that number which [expresses]
the digit six being adhered to throughout, indicates the
recapitulations of that apostasy, taken in its full extent, which
occurred at the beginning, during the intermediate periods, and which
shall take place at the end),--I do not know how it is that some have
erred following the ordinary mode of speech, and have vitiated the
middle number in the name, deducting the amount of fifty from it, so
that instead of six decads they will have it that there is but one. [I
am inclined to think that this occurred through the fault of the
copyists, as is wont to happen, since numbers also are expressed by
letters; so that the Greek letter which expresses the number sixty was
easily expanded into the letter Iota of the Greeks.] Others then
received this reading without examination; some in their simplicity,
and upon their own responsibility, making use of this number
expressing one decad; while some, in their inexperience, have ventured
to seek out a name which should contain the erroneous and spurious
number. Now, as regards those who have done this in simplicity, and
without evil intent, we are at liberty to assume that pardon will be
granted them by God.
Eli 616:n kannattajat, ei syytä huoleen, jos teillä ei ole ollut pahoja aikomuksia, niin kyllä Jumala antaa virheenne anteeksi!
But as for those who, for the sake of vainglory,
lay it down for certain that names containing the spurious number are
to be accepted, and affirm that this name, hit upon by themselves, is
that of him who is to come; such persons shall not come forth without
loss, because they have led into error both themselves and those who
confided in them. Now, in the first place, it is loss to wander from
the truth, and to imagine that as being the case which is not; then
again, as there shall be no light punishment [inflicted] upon him who
either adds or subtracts anything from the Scripture, under that
such a person must necessarily fall.
Mutta pelkästä turhamaisuudesta ei toki Pyhiä Tekstejä saa mennä ronkkimaan! Muuten voipi tulla iso pipi!
Moreover, another danger, by no
means trifling, shall overtake those who falsely presume that they
know the name of Antichrist. For if these men assume one [number],
when this [Antichrist] shall come having another, they will be easily
led away by him, as supposing him not to be the expected one, who must
be guarded against.
2. These men, therefore, ought to learn [what really is the state
of the case], and go back to the true number of the name, that they be
not reckoned among false prophets. But, knowing the sure number
declared by Scripture, that is, six hundred sixty and six, let them
await, in the first place, the division of the kingdom into ten; then,
in the next place, when these kings are reigning, and beginning to set
their affairs in order, and advance their kingdom, [let them learn] to
acknowledge that he who shall come claiming the kingdom for himself,
and shall terrify those men of whom we have been speaking, having a
name containing the aforesaid number, is truly the abomination of
desolation. This, too, the apostle affirms: "When they shall say,
Peace and safety, then sudden destruction shall come upon them."
And Jeremiah does not merely point out his sudden coming, but he even
indicates the tribe from which he shall come, where he says, "We shall
hear the voice of his swift horses from Dan; the whole earth shall be
moved by the voice of the neighing of his galloping horses: he shall
also come and devour the earth, and the fulness thereof, the city
also, and they that dwell therein." This, too, is the reason that
this tribe is not reckoned in the Apocalypse along with those which
are saved.
3. It is therefore more certain, and less hazardous, to await the
fulfilment of the prophecy, than to be making surmises, and casting
about for any names that may present themselves, inasmuch as many
names can be found possessing the number mentioned; and the same
question will, after all, remain unsolved. For if there are many names
found possessing this number, it will be asked which among them shall
the coming man bear. It is not through a want of names containing the
number of that name that I say this, but on account of the fear of
God, and zeal for the truth: for the name Evanthas
(E<greek>U</greek>AN<greek>Q</greek>A<greek>S</greek>) contains the
required number, but I make no allegation regarding it. Then also
Lateinos (<greek>L</greek>ATEINO<greek>S</greek>) has the number six
hundred and sixty-six; and it is a very probable [solution], this
being the name of the last kingdom [of the four seen by Daniel]. For
the Latins are they who at present bear rule: I will not, however,
make any boast over this [coincidence]. Teitan too, (TEITAN, the first
syllable being written with the two Greek vowels <greek>e</greek> and
<greek>i</greek>), among all the names which are found among us, is
rather worthy of credit. For it has in itself the predicted number,
and is composed of six letters, each syllable containing three
letters; and [the word itself] is ancient, and removed from ordinary
use; for among our kings we find none bearing this name Titan, nor
have any of the idols which are worshipped in public among the Greeks
and barbarians this appellation. Among many persons, too, this name is
accounted divine, so that even the sun is termed "Titan" by those who
do now possess [the rule]. This word, too, contains a certain outward
appearance of vengeance, and of one inflicting merited punishment
because he (Antichrist) pretends that he vindicates the oppressed.
And besides this, it is an ancient name, one worthy of credit, of
royal dignity, and still further, a name belonging to a tyrant.
Inasmuch, then, as this name "Titan" has so much to recommend it,
there is a strong degree of probability, that from among the many
[names suggested], we infer, that perchance he who is to come shall be
called "Titan." We will not, however, incur the risk of pronouncing
positively as to the name of Antichrist; for if it were necessary that
his name should be distinctly revealed in this present time, it would
have been announced by him who beheld the apocalyptic vision. For that
was seen no very long time since, but almost in our day, towards the
end of Domitian's reign.
4. But he indicates the number of the name now, that when this man
comes we may avoid him, being aware who he is: the name, however, is
suppressed, because it is not worthy of being proclaimed by the Holy
Spirit. For if it had been declared by Him, he (Antichrist) might
perhaps continue for a long period. But now as "he was, and is not,
and shall ascend out of the abyss, and goes into perdition," as one
who has no existence; so neither has his name been declared, for the
name of that which does not exist is not proclaimed. But when this
Antichrist shall have devastated all things in this world, he will
reign for three years and six months, and sit in the temple at
Jerusalem; and then the Lord will come from heaven in the clouds, in
the glory of the Father, sending this man and those who follow him
into the lake of fire; but bringing in for the righteous the times of
the kingdom, that is, the rest, the hallowed seventh day; and
restoring to Abraham the promised inheritance, in which kingdom the
Lord declared, that "many coming from the east and from the west
should sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob."
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http://www.columbia.edu/cu/augustine/ar ... vhaer5.txt
Lisää aiheesta:
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papyrus_115
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http://www.csad.ox.ac.uk/POxy/beast616.htm
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http://www.greatdreams.com/sacred/666_vs_616.htm
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http://www.escapeallthesethings.com/666 ... -beast.htm
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_the_Beast
Ja jos teema oikein kovasti kiinnostaa, niin siitä vaan osallistumaan aiheesta liittyvään keskusteluun Tiede-lehden keskustelupalstalla. Ei siellä vielä olekaan vasta kuin 1935 aiheeseen liittyvää postausta, joten varmaan sielläkin asiasta jutun juurta saisi...
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http://www.tiede.fi/keskustelut/viewtop ... &sk=t&sd=a
Minulle asialla ei nyt niin kauhean suurta väliä ole, onko oikea Pedon luku sitten 616, 666, 665 (kuten jossakin myös on esitetty) tai jotain ihan muuta, kun en sen kummemmin usko sen enempää numerologiaan kuin pirulaisiinkaan, mutta onhan asia aate- ja kulttuurihistoriallisesti ihan kiinnostava. Viisaat kirkonmiehet ja skolastikot ovat aikoinaan uhranneet epäilemättä satoja ellei tuhansia työtunteja, älyllisiä resurssejaan ja suuria määriä epäilemättä tuolloin arvokasta papyrusta ja mustetta asian pähkäilyyn ja ainakin verkkolinkkien ja keskustelupostausten määrästä päätellen asia puhututtaa ihan yhtä lailla tälläkin vuosituhannella...
Edit. Englanninkielinen wikipedia vahvistaa muistikuvani oikeiksi. 616 näyttäisi olevan todennäköisempi vaihtoehto, koska se esiintyy nimenomaan varhaisimmissa versioissa.
Niin, ehkä tähän päivään säilyneistä, löytyneistä ja tulkituista, mutta se ei välttämättä tietysti ole vielä lopullinen sana asiassa. Ilmeisesti teema on jo aikoinaan koettu merkittäväksi, kun Irenaeus kerran näki aiheelliseksi asiasta noinkin paljon kirjoittaa ja ottaa asiaan selkeästi kantaa. Mitä kaikkia motiiveja hänellä tuon kannan fiksaamiseen noin jyrkästi sitten on ollutkaan, niin ilmeisesti hän ainakin oli vakuuttunut 666:n paremmuudesta tai oikeellisuudesta 616:een verrattuna.
PS. Suomenkielinen wiki on täynnä virheitä. Kannattaa aina tarkistaa englanninkielisestä, tai joissain asioissa alkuperämaan wikistä.
Totta ja tietysti vielä parempi on mennä Wiki-artikkelien lähteisiin ja niidenkin taakse ja tarkastella niitä kriittisesti.
Hahaha! 