jhou kirjoitti: Su Touko 07, 2023 10:37 pm
sikakoira kirjoitti: Su Touko 07, 2023 8:46 pm
Elikkä tässäkö nyt pitäisi uskoa sotahaukka Clintonin sanaa tapahtumien kulusta ja siitä mitä on joskus sanottu
Kuulostaa äärimmäisen uskottavalta tarinalta
Clinton juuri heräsi ja muisti Putinin näin kertoneen kymmenen vuotta sitten.
Olisi varmaan ollut aika lööpit aikanaan mikäli näin olisi sanottu.
Lähteitä kysyit, ja sait. Mitä vielä uliset? Läntiset tiedustelulähteet pitivät varmana loppuvuodesta 2021, että Venäjä aikoo hyökätä. Tämä myös uutisoitiin laajasti. Oli meinaan aika lööpit. Venäjä selitteli että eeeeei me mihinkään olla hyökkäämässä, ja täälläkin palstalla muutamat höpöttelivät, että tiedustelulähteet ovat harhaisia. Voidaan todeta, että aika hyvin piti kutinsa tiedustelylähteiden arvio.
Tässä vähän lisää Putinin kunnioituksesta sopimuksia kohtaan.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/ ... ll-clinton
Daniel Fried, a former assistant secretary of state for European and Eurasian affairs, said Putin’s remarks to Clinton were not made widely known among members of the Obama administration, but added he assumed the former president must have told his wife, Hillary, who was secretary of state.
Fried, now a fellow at the Atlantic Council, said Putin had threatened Ukrainian territorial integrity three years before the Davos meeting with Clinton, at a Nato-Russia council meeting in April 2008, during the Bush administration. Putin declared that when Crimea had been transferred from the Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic to the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic in 1954 “not all legal procedures were followed”.
Fried said: “I was present, sitting next to the then Polish national security adviser, Mariusz Handzlik. We both stood up in alarm and turned to each other, saying, ‘Did you just hear what I heard?’
Edelleenkin voi toistaa, että jos länsimaat olisivat suhtautuneet aikanaan Krimin miehitykseen riittävällä vakavuudella, Putin olisi ehkä ymmärtänyt, että tämä tie on tukossa ja sodalta olisi ehkä vältytty.
Olisi tietysti pitänyt mainita että uskottavia lähteitä
Lähteitä kysyit, ja sait. Mitä vielä uliset? Läntiset tiedustelulähteet pitivät varmana loppuvuodesta 2021, että Venäjä aikoo hyökätä. Tämä myös uutisoitiin laajasti. Oli meinaan aika lööpit
Joo oli muistan hyvin. Kuinkahan mahtoivat osata ennustaa. Biden jopa osasi kertoa saman muutamaa päivää ennen Venäjän hyökkäystä kun Ukraina oli aloittanut tykistökeskityksensä Donbasiin.
Aikamoinen ennustaja se Biden.
Since November 2021, the Americans have been constantly threatening a Russian invasion of Ukraine. However, the Ukrainians at first did not seem to agree. Why not?
We have to go back to March 24, 2021. On that day, Volodymyr Zelensky issued a decree for the recapture of the Crimea, and began to deploy his forces to the south of the country. At the same time, several NATO exercises were conducted between the Black Sea and the Baltic Sea, accompanied by a significant increase in reconnaissance flights along the Russian border. Russia then conducted several exercises to test the operational readiness of its troops and to show that it was following the evolution of the situation.
Things calmed down until October-November with the end of the ZAPAD 21 exercises, whose troop movements were interpreted as a reinforcement for an offensive against Ukraine. However, even the Ukrainian authorities refuted the idea of Russian preparations for a war, and Oleksiy Reznikov, Ukrainian Minister of Defense, states that there had been no change on its border since the spring.
In violation of the Minsk Agreements, Ukraine was conducting air operations in Donbass using drones, including at least one strike against a fuel depot in Donetsk in October 2021. The American press noted this, but not the Europeans; and no one condemned these violations.
In February 2022, events came to a head. On February 7, during his visit to Moscow, Emmanuel Macron reaffirmed to Vladimir Putin his commitment to the Minsk Agreements, a commitment he would repeat after his meeting with Volodymyr Zelensky the next day. But on February 11, in Berlin, after nine hours of work, the meeting of political advisors to the leaders of the “Normandy format” ended without any concrete result: the Ukrainians still refused to apply the Minsk Agreements, apparently under pressure from the United States. Vladimir Putin noted that Macron had made empty promises and that the West was not ready to enforce the agreements, the same opposition to a settlement it had exhibited for eight years.
Ukrainian preparations in the contact zone continued. The Russian Parliament became alarmed; and on February 15 it asked Vladimir Putin to recognize the independence of the Republics, which he initially refused to do.
On 17 February, President Joe Biden announced that Russia would attack Ukraine in the next few days. How did he know this? It is a mystery. But since the 16th, the artillery shelling of the population of Donbass had increased dramatically, as the daily reports of the OSCE observers show. Naturally, neither the media, nor the European Union, nor NATO, nor any Western government reacted or intervened. It would be said later that this was Russian disinformation. In fact, it seems that the European Union and some countries have deliberately kept silent about the massacre of the Donbass population, knowing that this would provoke a Russian intervention.
At the same time, there were reports of sabotage in the Donbass. On 18 January, Donbass fighters intercepted saboteurs, who spoke Polish and were equipped with Western equipment and who were seeking to create chemical incidents in Gorlivka. They could have been CIA mercenaries, led or “advised” by Americans and composed of Ukrainian or European fighters, to carry out sabotage actions in the Donbass Republics.
In fact, as early as February 16, Joe Biden knew that the Ukrainians had begun intense shelling the civilian population of Donbass, forcing Vladimir Putin to make a difficult choice: to help Donbass militarily and create an international problem, or to stand by and watch the Russian-speaking people of Donbass being crushed.
If he decided to intervene, Putin could invoke the international obligation of “Responsibility To Protect” (R2P). But he knew that whatever its nature or scale, the intervention would trigger a storm of sanctions. Therefore, whether Russian intervention were limited to the Donbass or went further to put pressure on the West over the status of the Ukraine, the price to pay would be the same. This is what he explained in his speech on February 21. On that day, he agreed to the request of the Duma and recognized the independence of the two Donbass Republics and, at the same time, he signed friendship and assistance treaties with them.
The Ukrainian artillery bombardment of the Donbass population continued, and, on 23 February, the two Republics asked for military assistance from Russia. On 24 February, Vladimir Putin invoked Article 51 of the United Nations Charter, which provides for mutual military assistance in the framework of a defensive alliance.
In order to make the Russian intervention seem totally illegal in the eyes of the public, Western powers deliberately hid the fact that the war actually started on February 16. The Ukrainian army was preparing to attack the Donbass as early as 2021, as some Russian and European intelligence services were well aware.
https://marktaliano.net/the-military-si ... ques-baud/
The Military Situation In The Ukraine/By Jacques Baud
Oli pikkaisen sellainen Force majeure tilanne Putinilla viime helmikuussa. Antaako Ukrainan teurastaa Donbasin väestö vai mennäkkö väliin.
